Chairman McCaul Questions Witnesses on Information Sharing, Drone Threats at Task Force on Securing the Homeland for Special Events Inaugural Hearing
WASHINGTON – Congressman Michael McCaul (R-Texas) — chairman of the bipartisan Task Force on Enhancing Security for Special Events — questioned witnesses at the task force's first hearing, entitled "Lessons Learned: An examination of historic security incidents at mass gatherings.” Chairman McCaul discussed the importance of information sharing in light of the Boston Bombing with former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis, and questioned Commissioner Davis, Colonel Hodges of the New Orleans Police Department, and Kansas City Police Chief Graves on the emerging threat of UAVs during open air sporting events.
Full Exchange:
Chairman McCaul: Commissioner Davis, it's great to see you again. It’s hard to imagine it's been 12 years since you testified before this very committee, after the tragic events of the Boston Bombing. I want thank you for both your and law enforcement's heroism, and the first responders in saving lives that day.
We ran an investigation — I remember walking down Boylston Street in Boston with you, and then we found several disturbing facts. Information was not shared. The Russian report, FSB, that Tamerlan had traveled overseas, radicalized [and] came back was never brought to your attention, even though you had two officers on the Joint Terrorism Task Force. The travel that he made to Dagestan to try to radicalize was never communicated with you, sir, even though you had two officers on the joint Terrorism Task Force. Then to make things worse, the DHS and the FBI — using post-it notes — were not connecting the dots on the travel and on and on. And I remember asking you the question, “Would this have changed things if you had known about this?” And you of course said yes, and we would've monitored the suspect, and unfortunately you didn't have that opportunity at that time. I think since then we’ve made a lot of progress within the JTTF, with an MOU, that requires a sharing of the information with the state and locals.
Can you speak to lessons learned from this tragic experience that we went through, and how is it better today? And, and one final point — you talked about AI and how that can now play a huge factor in these investigations.
Commissioner Davis: … I remember meeting with Director Mueller, who had good intentions on establishing the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and there was supposed to be complete sharing across that organization. But some of the mid-level managers in there kind of pushed back against that, and I think that really was what impeded a really effective preventive measure being put in place.
So, as you said, with your help, and the help of Congress and the Senate, we were able to change the rules there, and that's not an easy thing to do. And I feel very happy that we had that impact across the nation. It's working today. My partner from the FBI was Rick DesLauriers — he was a tremendous asset to what we were doing, but organizations can sometimes be difficult. So, stressing the cooperation and coordination and the equal treatment of all aspects of law enforcement, federal, state, and local, so everyone's at the table and able to share their little piece of information through the fusion centers [like the BRIC] can make all the difference in the world.
Artificial intelligence is extremely dangerous. The benefit hopefully will outweigh the danger, as we put things in place to determine what's legitimate and not legitimate online. But the incredible gains that have been made in going through reams and reams of video and photographs — which is what we did in the time following the incident, which actually led to the capture of these two guys — has improved vastly.
The impediment right now is coming to a compromise with privacy rights experts and advocates, and weighing that cost-benefit analysis between public safety and people's privacy, and making sure we have a well-reasoned out and effective balance of the two — and I think that that still needs work. And those are the two things I'd mention.
Chairman McCaul: And I'm glad you had cameras. Otherwise we never could have identified subjects, and I know that there was some dispute about the traffic lights having access to that as well. On the issue of UAVs, I know in 2013 — the same year as the Boston bombing — you also tracked a team that were threatening to bomb the Pentagon with UAVs, and I think to Mr. Davis, Colonel Hodges, and Chief Graves — all three of you have referenced to UAVs... In my view this is probably the greatest emerging threat now to these games. We saw how effective drones were in the Ukraine response to the Russians — how cheap and inexpensive they are. Yet, it's very difficult to detect and to counter those measures.
Mr. Davis, if you wouldn't mind commenting on your experience, and Colonel Hodges, and Chief Graves?
Commissioner Davis: Sure. Briefly, the success in the Ukraine and other countries of using these devices on the battlefield is front and center in the minds of malign actors who cause harm or want to cause harm here. So, it's vitally important that we pay attention to this and we coordinate a federal, state, and local response.
Chief Graves mentioned that the ability to work on these issues by local police is critical, and there's been a lot of talk about it right now. There was a presidential order, executive order that came out recently that moved the ball down the field a little bit, but more needs to be done. There has to be a full partnership there, and the latest technology has to be employed — both electronic jamming techniques and also actual use of kinetic force against these things to protect the people who are in these stadiums. I cannot imagine if there's an attack from the air, what will happen to the crowd in an event like this.
Chairman McCaul: Colonel Hodges.
Colonel Hodges: So, we saw much success in Louisiana, specifically New Orleans, just like your field intelligence teams working together, like the commissioner said — that's what we did for our drone team to detect, identify, and mitigate those drones throughout the special events. Most of the upcoming national events that are across the country are going to be outdoors, and that's the biggest concern with the drones, and having a member from the local police, the state police, sheriff's office, and the federal entities together to collaborate.
Just having the availability or the authorization to mitigate — which is to disable or return the drone back to the controller — is not enough. You have to coordinate with the partners, and we did that to ensure that we did not take down another public safety agency's drone who were in fact doing the same as we did.
So as we move forward, because drones are more accessible, because they have a capability for a higher payload, and can remain in the air, the flight time is significantly longer — it's a unique challenge for all of law enforcement to maintain a temporary flight restriction. So, to detect those within that TFR — even though they're up for various things throughout the year — when those special events take place simultaneously across the country, we must have that collaboration that I think we showed through those special events, both Sugar Bowl, New Year's Day, Super Bowl. ...
Chairman McCaul: It was a great example of being successful. Chief Graves?
Chief Graves: Kansas City, Missouri Police Department is no stranger to drones. We've been utilizing drones for different purposes for ten to 12 years. Everything from crime scene capturing, to investigating traffic accidents, to making entry with some of our SWAT teams.
We are in the stages now of launching our Drones as First Responders program, and we’ve already taken shipment of those drones. But even still, the authority for local law enforcement who are usually on the ground handling any kind of an incident right in real time needs that authority — that not only the authority, but also the technology to down drones.
You know, we are there in various different situations. Obviously, you know, if you could use the Chief's parade in that situation — you know, there was a lot of drones going over in the air, but at that point we had a lot of our federal agencies. I will say that in Kansas City, we have a wonderful historical relationship with all of our federal partners. But even still, there are times when local law enforcement is experiencing an issue, sees a threat, and doesn't have the authority or the equipment to address that threat in real time.
Chairman McCaul: ... You're on the ground, you're the line of defense, and we need that two-way street of information. I think this was something this task force will be looking at is the authorities given to state and locals to work with the feds on UAVs.
Chief Graves: I think also the problem is the availability. I mean, I don't know if you'd say it as availability, but they're inexpensive, anyone can access them, and even here recently I observed one that's used for agriculture that you can fly over a field with pesticides. Those types of situations where you can just buy something like that online. You know, just having that local law enforcement authority to mitigate that threat in real time is really what's needed. I know that's been a topic of conversation here recently, and I just encourage you to continue that conversation and help us.
Chairman McCaul: I agree. Thank you.
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